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this country. obviously, the discussion can begin about the size of the magazines and i think that that's a good discussion to h e have. i would love to hear the people argue that we need 30-round magazines and that that somehow is tied to the right to bear arms. >> one of the arguments is that the -- >> sportsmen. >> -- that the ealliance puts forward -- [ inaudible ]. >> they say that because they know they can prevent a vote or have previously been able to prevent a vote in the united states congress on the issue. they have no desire to have a vote on a national basis. again, i want to reiterate that i'm not talking about basic weapons or weapons that are used in hunting. to the best of my knowledge, if
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anyone uses an assault weapon in hunting with a 30-round magazine, i would be quite surprised by that. and, by the way, if they do and because of public safety, that should go away, then i believe that should go away. [ inaudible question ] >> i think gun safety has been important to our administration, and the fact is that we are ranked as having the top five toughest laws on guns in the nation, but i will go back to what i said earlier. absent a federal framework, and i'll actually even drill down further into my own personal history. as mayor of stanford, we came to
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understand that a good percentage of the handguns that work their way to connecticut work their way up i-95 from states in which there are substantially easier gun laws, and guns in some cases sold under exceptions to the rule for gun shows. those guns work their way up i-95 and get to places like new york city or cities in our state, and i have always said and will continue to say that those exceptions and the absence of a tougher federal legislation is not good for connecticut, not good for our cities, and, again, i also have firmly believed that these high capacity magazines
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are extremely dangerous. having said that, being in the top five, i think there have been people -- people have previously thought they have done enough in connecticut. i'm not saying i was one of those. i doubt that there's any one of those left. [ inaudible question ] now that it's been pointed out and i have taken the time to -- we could be compliant with the previous assault weapons ban limitation by going from a -- there's a common sense piece of legislation that could be taken up in the next session. >> we've been listening to a
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press conference by connecticut governor dannel malloy who noted there were many heroes in connecticut today, but there's also a great deal of pain, many unanswered questions, and grief beyond imagination. on this monday, december the 17th. >> all across this land of ours, we have wept with you. we've pulled our children tight. >> today as a nation we grieve and today we as a people feel helpless. >> are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom? >> i can't count the number of times emilie noticed someone feeling sad or frustrated and would rush to find a piece of paper to draw them a picture or to write them an encouraging note.
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>> we can't accept events like this as routine. >> never before have we seen our babies slaughtered. >> let the little children come to me, jesus said, and do not hinder them, for so such belongs the kingdom of heaven. >> difficult images, difficult words for these dark days in america. we begin this afternoon as the first of many funerals are held in newtown, connecticut. the beginning of what will prove to be a parade of ceremonies laying to rest beautiful young children and their dedicated young teachers who became the victims of a senseless and unspeakable act of violence. children like 6-year-old noah pozner, smart as a whip, gentle
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but rambunctious, mourned by his twin sister ariel who was in a different classroom and survived. jack pinto, also 6, loved skiing, baseball, and football and was a big fan of the new york giants, especially victor cruz. the star receiver wore the boy's name on his cleats and gloves in tribute during the giants game sunday night. as a nation grapples with how and why these many young lives were cut brutally short, it fell to the president in newtown last night to face the impossible task of consoling a town that lay in emotional ruins. >> i can only hope it helps for you to know that the you're not alone in your grief. that our world, too, has been torn apart. that all across this land of ours, we have wept with you.
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we've pulled our children tight. >> as he mourned the 26 women and children murdered in friday's rampage, the president gave indications that this could be the tipping point for real change on gun control. >> we can't tolerate this anymo anymore. these tragedies must end. and to end them we must change. >> the president ended by reciting the names of each of the 20 children and 7 adults whose lives were taken vowing to make the country worthy of their memory. all of this comes as we struggle to learn more about a disturbed young man who chose to do his worst before taking his own life. joining us now from washington is arizona congressman raul gra
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hava. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. how are you? >> i'm well, sir. can i get your immediate response to what happened on friday and what the president said on friday and yesterday about addressing these matters seriously. >> numbing shock and for a parent and for a grandparent that has three grandchildren, mona and i, that one of them is in first grade, it brings all kinds of emotions to the front. these are babies, they're teachers, and the sanctity of school where life was beginning for many, many of these children as they discover themselves, it was a numbing, numbing shock, horrific. i thought the president's comments immediately after were reassuring to the nation and comforting. i thought his comments at the memorial service were that as
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well, but in particular i was very, very gratified for him to say this is enough. we've gone too far. we've reached a point of no return, and something needs to be done, and i sincerely hope we follow through on this commitment and i hope congress views this issue of gun safety and gun control with a much broader look. we have reached a point of in return. to continue what we're doing is to continue to invite the kind of tragedies we've seen over and over again, including in my hometown, tucson, where former colleague gabby giffords was seriously wounded and my present colleague ron barber was seriously wounded, people died and a child died, and yet here we are again. and i think that that is the frustration i sense from americans across this country. >> and yet, sir, thank you for raising your former colleague, gabby giffords. if congress wasn't able to respond on this matter having in
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their very own presence a woman who had been shot in the head, if congress couldn't do anything after that, why do you have any confidence now that things have changed? >> because of the confidence, quite honestly, i have in the american people. everywhere i have been the last few days, that is the topic of conversation, and it is not one about debating gun control and the second amendment. the question is posed to me, what are you going to do about this? why do we have to have assault rifles? why do we need 30, 60-clip magazines? why are there loopholes to allow 40% of the guns sold in this country not to have any background checks? why aren't you going to do something about it? and if i'm hearing it and i'm grateful for those comments, every one of my colleagues is hearing it. and these are little babies, and you have to put that in perspective. this is first graders, 6, 7 years old. my god, if nothing moves us off
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our own rigid positions on this issue, i don't know what will, but this certainly has all the indications that it can. >> and yet, sir, there are some who believe that this tragedy should be responded to with more guns. i'd like to play what your colleague, republican congressman louis gohmert had to say on sunday. >> i wish to god she had had an m-4 in her office locked up so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out and she didn't have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands, but she takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids. >> so, sir, principals and teachers should all be wearing holsters and ready to fire according to mr. gohmert. >> well, mr. gohmert, that was a stupid comment to be quite honest with you. insensitive at best and really out of touch with reality.
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you know, in my state, which is gun happy, there was efforts to have guns on campuses. a law passed you can have concealed weapons in a bar. all at the behest of the nra, all marching to that tune. well, that extremism is no longer part of the conversation. mr. gohmert has his opinion, but it is a shallow and lonely opinion. the rest of america does not believe that. >> i think i agree with you, sir. congressman, thank you so much. >> thank you very much. >> stay with us. much more ahead. ♪
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are we really prepared to
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say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage? that the politics are too hard? are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year sf somehow the price of our freedom? >> important questions raised by the president last night as he spoke at a memorial service for the 27 victims in newtown, connecticut. this afternoon new york city mayor michael bloomberg convened dozen. s of shooting survivors and victims' relatives to demand action right now. >> this is an outrage. we are killing each other, and we're the only industrialized country in the world doing it. the thought of us having to have another chance is horrifying. if this doesn't do it, what is going to? >> joining us now from atlanta is msnbc contributor goldie taylor and here with me in new
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york is mark glaze, a director of mayors against illegal guns. thank you, mark, for coming in. despite the fact that the gunman's mother had military hardware, sorry, firearms in her house which she presumably could have used, there are still people saying that what we need are for more people to be armed. and, indeed, the governor of michigan, rick snyder, has pledged to take a close look at legislation that would allow concealed weapons in schools and churches. will that save us from the kind of tragedy we had on friday? >> we work with survivors of gun violence every day. we just had, as you saw, many of them in to city hall to meet with mayor bloomberg. one is steve barton who was in the theater in aurora more a gunman killed so many people and his view is parallel to what you
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hear from law enforcement experts who are trained to use firearms who say there is no way in a confused situation on the street, in a theater, in a school that more firearms in the hands of more people makes you any safer, particularly because they're far less likely to be well-trained in their use than the police. >> goldie, you have handled serious firearms in your former life as a marine. is there any possible justification for a citizen to have access to semiautomatic weapons like a bushmaster and a magazine that can hold 30 rounds? what possible sporting justification is there for that? >> there is none. if you are deer hunting, you get one shot before the deer is gone. i don't know that, you know, an m-16 or an ar-15 is a weapon that ought to be available for any civilian. these guns are manufactured primarily for military use. they are not for hunting animals. they are for hunting people, and that is what is so unfortunate about this. i think the idea that we should
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arm teachers or arm our pastors or counsel loors in schools is simply misguided and fantastical at best. even if you are a private person with a gun for self-defense at home, the studies show that that gun is more likely to be turned on you or a member of your family by you or somebody in your family, you know, against each other. it is more likely to hurt someone that you care about than for a robber or so-called bad guy breaking into your house. but the real problem here is that there are things that we can do. we've got to dry up the black market for guns in this country, illegal guns are what's killing young black men in chicago and in atlanta. you know, we've got to have, you
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know, screenings, better screenings, for medical issues, including mental health impairments, people who are impaired mentally should not be allowed to access guns. and i think there are just some reasonable, reasonable restrictions that we ought to have on this, and it doesn't impact, you know, your second amendment rights, but i don't think that your second amendment rights override, you know, noah or jack's right to live. >> yeah. mark, i have heard people say as goldie says, that any kind of additional legislation would infringe upon people's civil liberties. but shouldn't americans enjoy the liberty of going to church, of going to a shopping mall, or god forbid of going to school without facing up to a firearm? >> well, of course, they should. this feels to me like a little bit of a tipping point, and it feels similar in a sense to the day after the oklahoma bombing when it was clear that things had changed a little bit and
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eventually changed for the better, but if more gun regulation is an infringement on civil liberties than it's one the average nra member is quite ready to have if it keeps the rest of us safe. we had a poll of nra members and gun owners and what we found was surprising. 74% of nra members thinks everybody who wants to buy a gun should have a background chick. 71% of nra members think if you are on a terror watch list you shouldn't be able to buy a gun. there's a broad and durable consensus about common sense things you can do and the nra members agree. it's the nra leadership that has a problem with it. >> goldie, you were just referencing these assault weapons, but even if an assault weapons ban was re-enacted, what about all those firearms that are already in circulation? how do we resolve the existing presence of lethal weapons in america today? >> you know, the last ban on assault weapons was riddled,
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literally riddled, with loopholes, including grandfathering in the right to keep the assault rifle that you already had in your possession. i am against that loophole. i am against, you know, the kinds of loopholes that allow gun shows to sell guns without proper identification to private buyers. you know, i think that we have got to look at reasonable, sensible laws that keep, you know -- that don't infringe upon people's second amendment right but certainly keeps dangerous guns like those that hold 30-round clips off the street. >> goldie taylor, mark glaze, director of mayors against illegal guns, thank you both so much. >> thank you. >> stay with us. much more ahead. >> can we say that we're truly doing enough to give all the children of this country the chance they deserve to live out their lives in happiness and with purpose?
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i have been reflecting on this the last few days, and if we're honest with ourselves, the answer is no.
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will this be the watershed moment for gun control in america? stay with us. much more ahead. the boys use capital one venture miles
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[ cheering ] any flight, anytime. the scoreboard doesn't lie. what's in your wallet? hut! i have me on my fantasy team. if now is not the time for a national gun conversation, then when is? ♪ sleep in heavenly peace >> state police are responding to a report of a school shooting in newtown, connecticut. >> 9:41 a call for help. >> the apparent adult shooter is dead. >> the shooter, 20-year-old adam lanza. >> the popping kept going off and i could see his feet and his legs from the knees down. >> i just kept reassuring them that they would be okay, that their mommies and daddies would be there soon. >> every single round of ammunition will be looked at. >> they had their entire lives ahead of them, birthdays,
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graduations, weddings, kids of their own. >> this is ridiculous. >> i'm going to introduce in the senate and the same bill will be introduced in the house. >> you can strangle somebody with your hands. that doesn't mean everybody shouldn't have an assault weapon. >> limit the size of clips. >> anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. >> i wish she had had an m-4 and takes her head off before he could kill those precious kids. >> i don't want us to lose our resolve to do something. >> the nra's number one objective this time was to defeat barack obama. >> the school's staff did not flinch. they responded as we all hope we might respond. wait for the good guys, they're coming. and we know that good guys came. can we honestly say that we're doing enough to keep our children safe from harm? we can't tolerate this anymore. surely we can do better than this. ♪ sleep in heavenly peace
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♪ sleep in heavenly peace >> beautiful sound there from "saturday night live." let's get to our panel. karen finney is an msnbc political analyst, ana marie cox is a columnist for the guardian and steve kornacki is my colleague. steve, we checked the website of one online gun supplier for the sort of rifle that was used by the individual on friday. i think we have video of it, and they're almost completely sold out. now, a new abc/"washington post" polls believe newtown is indicative of broader problems in american society. so do you think this time things are different? the circumstances, the context, this time for a conversation about gun control is different? >> it is.
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and the pressure i think is going to be more intense in the days, weeks, and probably months following this on politicians to act. it's not just because of the horrific details of this, as awful and almost unprecedented as they are, but there's also sort of a trend here that i think it's 6 of the 12 worst mass shootings in u.s. history have happened since 2007. so there's this growing awareness of, wow, this is reaching like, you know, serious proportions right now, and if you think -- >> but, steve, but steve, so we're happy to have mull. shootings in a city like chicago, multiple shootings in atlanta, but it takes an absolute massacre for us to respond? >> yeah. >> is that what you're saying? >> it's unfortunate. i think the parallel, the last time there was serious gun control movement in this country was the early 1990s with the brady bill. what the impetus was was soaring crime rates. that was a top national issue if you took a poll. what you're talking about in chicago and wherever it's playing out, it is horrible, but from a public opinion
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standpoint, because the violent crime rate has dropped, it took guns in a lot of ways out of the public debate. so now it's these spectacular individual incidents and the growing number of them that's putting it back in the debate and i think creating that pressure again that we last saw in the early '90s. >> karen, this was mayor michael bloomberg today. please take a listen to this. >> this is not a partisan issue. this is just a bunch of people who i think are cowed by the nra, and as i said yesterday, if you think the nra has power, just remember their number one priority was to defeat barack obama. last time i checked, he's going to be inaugurated again. >> karen, we called the nra asking for a response to the newtown tragedy along with their thoughts. we spoke with a person asking for a comment or statement. we received nothing, silence. >> how shocking that cowards would hide when asked the tough questions. i think mayor bloom during is
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right -- >> these are the same cowards who gave mitt romney over $800,000 during the presidential election and they can't give us a comment today after that horrifying tragedy on friday. >> well, because they know that what they're backing is shameful but here is what's most important at this moment, martin. i disagree with steve to some degree that, yes, in the immediate aftermath there are these cries for legislation and we have to take action, but i think it is incup bekucumbent o us to make sure our elected leaders really follow through, that they don't get weak-kneed when the nra quietly starts to come calling. think about the courage of those teachers who protected -- gave their lives to protect their children. i think it's important we keep the pressure on because we know the nra. we know the games they're going to play. we also need to keep the pressure on i think publicly to shame people out of this misinformation. you know, mayor bloomberg has been one of the most vocal
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people. it's the mythology that the nra is going to take you out if you don't do what they say. on the conservative side there's a mythology that president obama is going to take away your guns if we sign a u.n. treaty on small arments and that he's trying to foment violence in mexico in order to get support for the assault weapons ban, and we have to put all of that aside and have a very serious conversation on what we know about human behavior when it comes to guns and how we curb gun violence period, and we have to be on the same page that we need to curb gun violence period. >> okay. anna marie, let me read you something from "the new york times" in july of last year. it's about how the nra watered down the bill congress passed in the wake of the virginia tech shooting. i'm quoting, as a condition of its support for the measure, the national rifle asoths extracted a concession. the inclusion of a mechanism for restoring firearms rights to those who lost them for mental health reasons. so the nra considers it a
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disability not to be able to own a firearm, notwithstanding the fact that an individual may have serious psychiatric illness. >> and we thought obama care was going to reform the mental health welfare state. yeah, i think that the nra's definitely on the losing side of history here. they may even not just be on the losing side but an actual villain. i have got to say i think karen is right. i'm really happy that mayor bloomberg pointed out that the nra is really sort of a false front in a lot of ways. it doesn't have the power people think it did. i'm sitting here thinking first grover norquist, then the nra. a lot of these bullies on the right are falling aside as people kind of learn to get angry about the right things. you know, i don't know exactly what people were thinking when they responded to this survey saying they thought -- they think the massacre in newtown was indicative of larger problems. it is indicative of larger problems, probably not necessarily the ones about video games and teenagers that they're
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thinking of but about massive gun violence in cities like chicago that you mentioned and this inordinate power that's given to some of the groups on the right to control not just our national policy but our national dialogue. i think the way that we talk about this, when people even use the word gun rights as though that is something that exists, is a problem. that is not actually -- the second amendment is not about gun rights. it is about a well-armed an well-regulated militia. we need to rethink how we talk about this, how we think about it, and i think we are on a first step here. >> okay. karen finney, steve kornacki, and ana marie cox, thank you so much. stay with us. much more ahead.
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cake john yarmuth who said, i have been largely silent on the issue of gun violence over the past six years, and i am now as sorry for that as i am for what happened to the families who lost so much. but can the nra with its money and influence thwart the momentum to address gun violence in america today? jonathan alter is an msnbc political analyst and julian epstein, a democratic strategist, joins us now. welcome to you both. >> hi, martin. >> john, does the nra still have the potency that apparently that congressmen appear to fear, that new york city mayor michael bloomberg says is exaggerated. >> it is exaggerated but it is a very potent, probably the most potent lobbying organization, because what happens is when attention fades, then the nra lobbyists move in and they nibble away at any possible legislation, they kill the legislation in the dark of night. what needs to happen is that we
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need a movement, a new conversation and a new movement so that they feel the political pain, so that somebody who opposes what should always be called common sense gun legislation, common sense, keep that in mind, never fail to attach common sense, so when you -- >> is the common sense when michigan governor rick snyder who is promising to look at close legislation that would allow concealed weapons in school and churches. that's the common sense discussion that's taking place today from a governor. >> okay. here is the deal. until rick snyder loses, and he's up again in 2014 -- >> yes. >> until he loses on this issue, the message won't be delivered. right now the nra and their minions, their, you know, stooges in the congress, are one-issue voters. if we have one-issue voters on the other side who say even
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though i like rick snyder i can't vote for him because he's against common sense gun control and he and several others lose, then the politics will change. that's why 2014 is a decisive election in this and people have to organize, organize, organize, and if the obama voters, and there are enough of them, if they go out and they get off their fannies and they vote in 2014 against politicians who are in favor of laws that allow children to die and if they frame it that way and they hit it hard and they win, then the giant will be slain of the nra. >> from your lips to god's ears. julian, what will their excuse be for why we do not need any additional gun control legislation? >> the same thing they always say, which is that the guns are not the reason for the fact that we have 11,000 gun related homicides every year and that,
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in fact, guns are important for self-defense. as we discussed on the show on friday, those statistics are just demonstrably false. if you look at comparatively where we are with respect to the rest of the world, if you look at germany, uk, japan, france, all of whom have very strong gun regulations, we have more gun deaths in one week than they have in an entire year, and the incidents -- the number of times in which guns inside a home are used for self-defense are exceedingly small, on the order of maybe 1 in 15, 1 in 20 as compared to the number of times when a gun is used either for suicide or a homicide. anybody that looks at the data here is quite clear that on the whole, particularly things like assault weapons, create far, far more kor nage in th carnage in this country than they prevent. to a large extent the reason why i think progressives have not
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been able to mount an effective campaign for sensible gun laws, it's been a failure of the progressive movement, and i think that will now change with progressives. they must realize they have to make this an election issue. all of the polls show that the public is widely in favor of sensible gun regulations. i will point out what i said on friday. president clinton after columbine when we were meeting in the oval office said that he would be willing to go into new hampshire in the middle of hunting season and make the case for sensible gun regulations, and the reason he was willing to do that was because he knew once the public is engaged on this, they will be for smart, sensible regulations. you know, we regulate guns less than we regulate cars, less than we regulate toys in this country and i think that's where president obama is right now, too. >> john, there have been suggestions by a number of people that video games, that hollywood, that entertainment may be to blame for what happened. do you have any opinions on
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that? >> you can't say anything itself is to blame. it's a big problem but everybody has to do their part. hollywood has to do their part. instead of getting side tracked -- >> right, because here is the problem. we have video games and we have violent movies in britain, in japan, in australia, in new zealand, and we don't have the level of violent gun crime than occurs here. >> it's been studied a lot, and it hasn't really borne out. it's obviously not a good thing and i think people should take a hard look at themselves in hollywood about what they produce, but that's different than moving toward an agenda of common sense gun control, and i think the first step is for the president to have a televised town meeting in the white house after the holidays. we don't want this to be one of these things where, you know, everybody forgets and moves on to the next thing. this needs to be an issue for a long time, and we need a series of events, televised town meeting, march on washington, national mobilization day, on and on and on.
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these are the elements, martin, of movement building. this is not about trying to ram through dianne feinstein's legislation. that's not going to happen. >> no. >> you have to change the conversation by building a movement, and that movement should not be to utopian. we're not going to ban handguns. that's not going to happen, but what we can do is get rid of these absolutely ridiculous reg -- laws that allow you to buy weapons on the internet. >> 40% without any background checks. julian you were going to say? >> very much agree with jonathan. i think friday was the saddest day this country has experienced since 9/11 and i think it wouldn't be inappropriate for the president to do a prime time address to the nation. your point about violent video games and other cultural factors here, yes, those are factors, but they are supplemental factors, not substitutes for the discussion about guns. as you pointed out in france, germany, uk, japan, south korea, all places that have maybe 100
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gun homicides or so roughly a year, all of those video games are present. you don't see any of that gun carnage. similarly, if you just look at the data in the united states, households that have guns in them, say a woman who lives in a household that has a gun in it, is about 12 to 15 times more likely to be the victim of gun violence than a household that doesn't have a gun in it. so the data is overwhelming that it is not these other factors. it is not simply mental illness, as important as it is. it is not simply video games. it is the presence of a gun inside the home that makes you much, much, much more likely to be a victim of gun violence or a gun related homicide. the data is overwhelming. >> you have to call out the nra. so you need wayne lapierre or one of those guys to come to the white house meeting. if they won't come, the president invites them to the televised meeting and they won't come, they should be shamed into it and assaulted to use one of the kind of terms they like, for
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their lack of patriotism, that they won't even discuss this in public. that doesn't mean they have to go on everybody's tv show but if the president invites them to the white house for this national conversation, they must show up and then the i had yosi of their position like louis gohmert saying if only this teacher, if only the people in the awed sense at the movie knee ter had guns. >> i wish we had more time, gentlemen. we do not. but thank you. coming up, god in a time of national mourning. stay with us. aspirin, really? i haven't thought about aspirin for years. aspirin wouldn't really help my headache, i don't think. aspirin is just old school. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain. but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast. what's different? it has micro-particles. enters the bloodstream fast and rushes relief to the site of pain.
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just ahead, god and guns, and the one time pastor and politician, who is very badly mistak mistaken. children's tylenol, the #1 brand of pain and fever relief recommended by pediatricians and used by moms decade after decade.
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and learn more. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long. it's time now to "clear the air," and while the vast majority of commentators have spoken about the horrifying events in newtown with a degree of sense and sensitivity, one
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former presidential candidate has offered an unfortunate and mystifying explanation for what he believes may have caused the tragedy. >> we ask why there's violence in our schools, but we've systematically removed god from our schools. should we be to surprised that schools would become a place of carnage because we have made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability. >> mr. huckabee seems to be suggesting that since people don't pray in school, this somehow led to the murder of 20 children between the ages of 6 and 7. that there is some causal link between religious observance and the safety of students. but how does he explain multiple shootings in actual churches where the sole purpose of the building is the worship of god? buildings like this one in atlanta where in october a man entered the sanctuary during a prayer service and started
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shooting. or churches like the new destiny center in colorado where the pastors mother and another member of the congregation were shot. had they, in huckabee's words, systematically removed god from their lives? of course they hadn't. given his comments, it's hard to believe mr. huckabee was a baptist minister for more than ten years because his theology, to put it mildly, is completely upside down. at this time of year, christmas services will tell the story of christ's birth, and according to the biblical narrative, it's hard to imagine anyone being closer to god. speaking of christ, john's gospel begins with these words, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god, and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. so according to christian theology, christ himself was god in human flesh. therefore, he could not have been closer to god. so what happened to him? he was crucified.
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it wasn't possible for him to systematically remove god from his very nature, yet he was falsely convicted and hung on a cross. the murderous act that led those children to die had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether they prayed in school or went to church, and the memory of their souls should never be tarnished by the stupidity of someone who really should know better. thanks for watching. chris matthews is next. law and order. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. let me start tonight with this. is gun violence, mass violence, mass violence against children the price we pay for freedom?
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is watching and doing nothing what we have to put up with to obey the second amendment? is it? we're suppose he had to do nothing because the constitution upholds the right to bear arms. well, we have easy access to semiautomatic weapons in this country, semiautomatic rifles. is it a good society that does this, allows it? a country where anyone can get ahold of a rifle that can kill 26 people in ten minutes. is this a good society? is it really a free society when you can't be sure your kids are safe sitting at their school desks? i ask the questions knowing the only way we can end this is with the votes of politicians from deer hunting country, not from the big cities. will they be there? will politicians who fear the gun lobby bear up under the strain of attack against any measure no matter how small to curb the power of the gun owners? the question tonight, what should and most importantly can be done to stop this kind of gun violence? and if nothing will work, say it. go ahead, say nothing can be done. i want to hear an american elected ofci

Martin Bashir
MSNBC December 17, 2012 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

News/Business. Journalist Martin Bashir uncovers breaking news stories. New.

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on 12/17/2012